The Bishop of Washington, who made headlines in the national secular media when she and colleagues at the National Cathedral denounced some of the rhetoric of President Donald Trump, has faced off with a prominent evangelical who is more supportive of the president.

The Rt. Rev. Mariann Edgar Budde was interviewed by NPR along with Richard Land, president of the Southern Evangelical Seminary. Some excerpts:

Budde: “We wanted to say two things. First, that this level of — this low level of political discourse need not be our normal for America, and second, that the president’s words matter, and words such as the ones I cited have dangerous potential to encourage others, both to speak and then to act with condoned violence. That’s why we spoke.”

Land: “I think at this particular time, we need to be as religious leaders not so much accusing people of racism or xenophobia as seeking to talk to each other, not at each other, and not in an accusatory ways, and seeking to lower the temperature and lower the rhetoric. I have condemned racism my whole life, and by the way, I’m old enough that I have known real racists, and I know Donald Trump — and he’s not a racist.”

See the video or read the rest.